loud breathing

[Vighorr]

My retic starts to breath heavily when he's out of his enclosure.  When I just got him that didn't happen, but after a while he started doing it when he was out of his enclosure for about 10 minutes, slowly decreasing the time until it only takes a minute or so now to make him breath louder.  Room temperature is not high, 68 - 70F but I never get him out for a long time, 5 to 10 minutes maximum.  None of my other snakes do this.

enclosure temps: hot side up to 93F, cool end 77F, he makes use of both sides
humidity: 70 - 80% at the side of the drinking bowl (cool end), 60 - 70% on the hot side

Here's 2 short vids I made, in each one you can hear 1 typical noisy breath.  Room temp too cold perhaps, or something else?

100 2910

100 2911

[Donnie_K]

That is either an Upper resporatory infection or a retained shed in the nostril. How exactly are you measuring the temps and humidity in the cage, and do they change at all through a 24 hour period? Need details. Also need to know what his setup is like. Any wood in the enclosure? screen top? what kind of heat source are you using?

[Vighorr]

I don't use wood for any of my snakes.  Temps stay the same through a 24 hour period, only humidity changes, need to mist once every day/other day to keep it up.  I do need to dry the corners of the tub daily to prevent the tub getting wet.  Ventilation holes are at the sides of the tub.  I use a heat cable for heating.


temp & humidity measurement is done using this, but I think this isn't as accurate as digital measurement


heat cable below the tub


5 ventilation holes, same on opposite side


top tub is retic, bottom tub is burm, below the burm an empty terrarium on the left and an amazon tree boa terrarium on the right, keeping the cool end slightly warmer for my burm than it is for my retic

[Donnie_K]

I'm willing to bet your problem lies in that little dial you're using to measure temps and humidity. Digital or analog isn't the issue here, the issue is that is measuring air temps. Air temp only matters at the coolest part of the cage, and is never to drop below 75.  What you need is a Non Contact Thermometer (Temp Gun) to measure the surface temps on the floor of both the hot side and the cool side.  Other than that your setup looks excellent. Does she spend alot of time on the cool side? because if you're getting a reading of over 90 degrees on the hot side with that dial, the surface temp on the floor has to be far greater than 90 degrees and I imagine she probably stays off it most of the time. The air on my hot sides are probably closer to the high 70's, low 80's, while that basking spot on the floor where the animal absorbs heat through it's belly is exactly 90 degrees.

So first off, get a good temp gun and determine what exactly is going on as far as surface temps on the floor. As far as treating her, what I'm going to suggest is first push down slightly on the bridge of his nose and check for any bubbles in the nostrils, or any fluids at the corners of the mouth, if you see either of these you have a URI that will need to be kept a bit drier for now, and the temps a bit warmer.

 If there are no signs of URI then try getting a rubbermaid tote similar to your enclosures, fill it about half way with 90 degree water (make sure it isn't too hot, our body temp is 98.5 so 90 degree water may not feel as warm as you would think), and put him in it, put the lid on, and let him sit for about an hour. The temperature will boost his immune system slightly, and the humidity will loosen up anything in it's nostrils or lungs such as retained shed or small amounts of mucus.

Then just verify what your floor temps are. If you don't have access to a temp gun just yet, you can temporarily use an indoor/outdoor thermometer that has a wired probe to measure outside temps, and use that probe taped to the bottom of the tote, one on each side. Again, remember, anytime any are of the cage drops below 75, you are asking for a resporatory infection.

[Vighorr]

He changes sides quite often, but I'd say around 70% of the time he's on the cooler end.  Might have to place a thin piece of plywood between the cable & tub to spread the heat better, cuz I think the floor temp is very high at the places the cable comes in contact with the tub, but I can only be sure with a tempgun.
Just ordered one from Proexotics, should arrive within a week.  He's been handled a lot today to get the breathing vids right, so will do the health check tomorrow and act as described.

Thanks a lot for this valuable info!  My vet would probably just give him an antibiotic shot, but if it can be solved without vet visit or meds, I'm all in favour of that.

[Donnie_K]

Yeah, a vet would almost always give them a baytril shot,, which in my opinion is bad for the animal anyway. As far as spreading the heat... I can't really tell but you don't want to heat more than 1/3 of the cage,, so you may just be able to move it closer together. The only way to control the temp on the cool side would be to change the temperarure of the room the enclosure is in. Proexotics are good people to deal with,  you'll be happy with their product. I use their PE2.

[Donnie_K]

Update please? how's this guy doing?

[Vighorr]

I checked him the day after my last post and looked at the inside of his mouth.  Looked OK except a bit too wet in the corners of his mouth and at the upper jaw (saliva or mucus?), no bubbles out of his nose.  Kept him a bit dryer and warmer with minimal handling, but after a week no improvement, so I took him to the vet.  He confirmed what I saw first, a too moist inside of his mouth and he gave him a shot on the last friday, then again on monday (nice clean shed as well on monday after a bath) and today was his last shot.  A lot of improvement after the second shot so I hope it'll keep improving.  I won't handle him unless needed for another week.  His appetite is unaffected by any of this.

I don't doubt the reliability of my vet (going there for over 13 years with reptiles), but I have a feeling he's a bit too easy on meds.  I have no medical knowlegde, but for me it seems quite obvious to microscopically check a sample of saliva or mucus before deciding what med to give to the snake.  He does that with feces of newly acquired snakes for parasite spotting, but I haven't seen him do that in another situation.  Makes me kinda wonder if he might give meds that are not needed.  The snake is improving and that matters to me, but I can't ignore questioning that what doesn't seem logical to me.

Tempgun PE01 arrived monday evening in Belgium at the customs, but still no postmen to bring me good news, maybe holiday delay, hope I'll get it this week!

[Donnie_K]

Right... the baytril usually hinders their immune system in the long run, and with animals like retics is completely unneccessary to treat RI. As long as the animal is doing better though, I think that temp gun is going to tell you alot. Please keep us updated on this.

[Vighorr]

Tempgun arrived and did some temp checking.  Where my heat cable comes in contact with the bottom of the tub, it's 105F and some places even higher, between the cables it's 78 - 80F.  Gonna experiment with the heat cables the next few days, but the best thing to do would be getting proper heating (tape or mat) together with a thermostat for best results.  The heat cable just doesn't spread the heat well and that gives a lot of temp differences on the hot side.

The snake still makes sound, only when he's being moved for cleaning, but less loud and less frequent than last week.  Will still keep him dryer and see what I can do about the hot side, otherwise it's the mat/thermostat solution.