advice on maternal incubation (I DO NOT WANT A INCUBATOR)

[coitussnakes]

Anybody have any advice on maternal incubation from expeirance. please no comments on incubtors.

[Donnie_K]

You're likely not going to find anyone who has done this from experience, there are very, very few people that have and hatched anything using maternal incubation. I do have to mention again, that I think this is a bad idea... it's very difficult to get the temps and humidity right, without any fluctuation at all, and is impossible to stop mold this way. If one egg molds, it will inevitably spread to the rest of the eggs.

 That being said, if I were you, I'd be looking at an AP cage or vision or something along those lines that is big enough. You will want to heat one end of the cage to about 90 with a radiant heat panel and a good thermostat. The other end I would keep around 80, but controlling the temperature of the room the cage is in. You will want some humidity, but not so much that you drown the eggs, and that does happen alot. Your temps have to stay constant, can not fluctuate at all. Since the female will lay the eggs where she feels is best, you are going to want to build a lay box with some spagnhum moss in it, she's not gonna wanna lay them directly on the ground. Me personally, I would try to make the lay box the length of the cage so that she can choose the optimal temp to deposit her eggs in. The lay box is the reason belly heat is not as effective. You do not want to try this with a heat light as this will dry out the eggs. And you do not want to try it with any other heat source without a good thermostat... preferably a proportional one like a herpstat or a helix. hopefully someone else will chime in with some good ideas as well.

[SnakeGirl]

You're likely not going to find anyone who has done this from experience, there are very, very few people that have and hatched anything using maternal incubation. I do have to mention again, that I think this is a bad idea... it's very difficult to get the temps and humidity right, without any fluctuation at all, and is impossible to stop mold this way. If one egg molds, it will inevitably spread to the rest of the eggs.

Absolutely agreed.  You'll learn a lot more if your eggs actually hatch, and doing so by maternal incubation is very difficult when you have no previous experience.

However, if you are still adamant about maternally incubating, I've found a great way to make a nest box for the females (which I use for them to lay their eggs in, then remove the eggs for artificial incubation).

Your female is going to want a tight, secure place to lay her eggs in.  Wide open spaces are not going to appeal to her.  As Donnie stated, it will also need to be a humid place.  My solution has been to make a nest box using cheap cat litter pans from Walmart (they typically run about $2 each, and you will need 2 of them).

First, cut a doorway into one of the pans large enough for your female to fit into.  Next, turn the one with the doorway in it upside down over the second one.  In the outer lip of the pans, make a hole large enough to put a string through; do this on both of the long sides of the pans.

Thread your string through the pans and tie the two pans together (this creates a secure hide for the female, where the top will not get knocked off by the snake, resulting in an open lay box).



Fill your pan with damp spaghnum moss (though this may be quite difficult to find this time of the year, depending on your city).  Wet your moss, then squeeze out the excess water--you do not want the moss to be soaking wet.  (You'll most likely have to remoisten this throughout the incubation as well, and this can be quite difficult to do without getting the eggs wet.)  Once you have this done, place it in the cage with the female over the hot spot in the cage.

If she moves it (and they will sometimes do that), leave it where she puts it, as she has found a suitable place for it with what she feels is the correct temperature.

Note: if you tie one side of the string in a bow rather than a knot, you can easily untie and check her to determine if she has laid her eggs.  But, use a flashlight to look in there as often as possible, and only open if to check if you truly think she has eggs with her, as frequent openings may cause her to stress and/or not use the egg box.

[illbeyoursoldier]

I posted this on your other post, but hey just in case right? And besides, I added more too it, LoL. I do know someone personally who attempted Maternal Incubation, for the learning experience, as well. Needless to say, Not all of the eggs made it, and died during the incubation period.

Here are some links I found, however:

Paper by Jay Martin:
http://www.jaymartinreptiles.com/articles/maternal.pdf

Good info on Maternal Incubation if you scroll down:
http://www.just---balls.com/eggincubation.htm


Ball Boutique:
"Very simple to do. I keep the thermostat at 76 degrees and humidity range 68% to 75%  As summer comes the temperature goes up in the room automatically and goes down in the winter. My humidity is regulated by humidifier. In the summer there is no need for it. I get enough humidity without using one. I use Freedom Breeders rack system. I keep my heat tape @ 89 degrees year round. If a female lays egg off tape I push her and the eggs and mom to the heat tape. I also have a fan turned on 24/7 in back of the humidifier."


And I know you don't want to hear about books, but I am pretty sure VPI wrote some decent stuff on Maternal Incubation in "Pythons of the World: Volume 2," if I remember correctly.



Additionally, IMO:
I would get her out of the Exo-Terra tank and into a big sterilite tub (they do make 90qts and larger) or vision cage, or anything that holds heat better than an aquarium, and can be heated with heat tape, without a heat lamp. Additionally, I'd make sure the tub/enclosure is large enough to give her room to thermo-regulate herself as she sees fit. She will know whats best for her before you do. Unfortunately, Donnie is right in saying it will be more expensive maternally incubating rather than artificially incubating, because I would buy a humidifier and a digital humidity gauge, asap. Costly, but I think there is no other way to be successful without it. I would additionally invest in a reliable thermostat and a temp gun. I use Helix DBS-1000's, and they work fantastic for me. If you're going stone-age, being right on with your temps will be your only way to be sure you'll get anywhere with this. I would also follow previous advice and giver her a decent size lay box with spagnum moss. And she will need hides on both sides of the cage, and general darkness for security.

Don't think anyone is bashing you.
Quite frankly, I am very curious as to how this turns out.
When they lay, start a thread and keep us updated, and let us know what you do and how you do it for everything.
I want details!! LoL.
This could be a learning experience for all of us.

[coitussnakes]

Il keep yal posted. im going to move her to a tub i think. is it ok to put a heat mat on the bottom or will that melt it and realese toxins?

[Donnie_K]

will only do that if you don't put a thermostat on it, it will get too hot. With a good thermostat it'll stay right where it should be.

[coitussnakes]

How do thermastates work any way? like how do u wire a heat mat to them? and then does it plug into a wall?

[Donnie_K]

thermostat plugs into the wall, and has outlets on it for the flexwatt or under tank heater to plug into. There's a probe that measures temperature. If you're going to use an under tank heater, you want the probe between the undertank heater and the tote.

[coitussnakes]

ok.thanks

[coitussnakes]

Another stupid question. 1st off i cant get a thermostat. with that said, heres my idea. what if i took one of them styrofoam boxs  take two pans of glass put the heat mat (witch stays at 90 deg) between them and put it in the box. aside from that keep the room at 90d. aside from that i have a digital temp/humitidty reader display and i can keep humidtity good. also the Eggs in ther would be in a plastic container. and maybe line it with towels. would this work?