Author Topic: Another Controversial Question  (Read 585 times)

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Offline illbeyoursoldier

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Another Controversial Question
« on: July 22, 2009, 01:42:32 PM »
This is a post meant to start discussion. I would like to make it known beforehand that I do not have any new intentions of jumping into hots. Some of you already know my take on hots -- no fully loaded ones with pets/friends/loved ones in the house that don't know anything about reptiles; no hots till I am in a permanent situation with a big ass warehouse (give me time, LoL). Basically, this post is not meant for me, only to start a debate that I've seen multiple answers to.

 :seesaw:

What venomous snake makes for a good "beginner" hot??
Is there such thing as a "beginner" hot??
For you hot keepers out there, where did you start?? Everyones gotta start somewhere!!

Please feel free to share your opinions!!
Cheers!
- Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(& Frank M. Wood)

"Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood." -Marie Curie

Offline LadyBloodRose

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Re: Another Controversial Question
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2009, 03:40:48 PM »
lol alright i'll start it off   i am sure many may differ from me but heres my 2cents.

What venomous snake makes for a good "beginner" hot??

there is no beginner hot honestly. If it has any sort of venom there is a chance it can be life threatening - Sencitivity to venom sucks let me tell ya!
Now with that said there are some species that you can begin with that help you test the water as it were.
1st- Hog Nose Snake (Not to be confused with the Hog Nosed Pitviper) Hog nose are probly your most common "hot snake" that could be considered "warm" their venom is geared more toward their natural prey, ie. other reptiles and amphibians so it doesn;t realy have the same adverse effects on ahuman that it would its prey - also its rear fanged poor delivery system - an it realy has to chew on ya. (if your sencitived to venom though you may need to take caution, you can also still run an anaphlaxis shock risk)
2. an i i name this snake off because i have had people tell me that theywant soemthing alil exotic, but not realy deadly, is the Asian Vine Snake, its verry beautiful, an again its anouther species that is more  lizard an ampbian feeder so as youc an expect its rear fanged an of course arboreal (beautiful display animals) bout like the hog nose if you get taged you generlay have swelling an alil itching unles again your alergic.

now lets say perhaps you anna get into just the hots we have here in the US. But you don;t want a hoggie? Well whats next? Most people tend to start out with a copperhead as their 1st hot. Generaly these are the best for the actual hot snakes to me to start out with. Their venom can cause seere swelling an alota pain, but your not likely to die unless you get unlucky an your hit in avein, artery, throat/face or chest an again of course you run a risk as i said before alergic reaction an shock. Copperheads however come in a variety of size, an color an even their patterns can greatly varry. heir not to overly agressive, an they can generaly even the wc be good feeders if your patient.

I have had people ask about beginner hots, but again, they don;t want a common kept  hot like the copper instead they wanna jump into rattlers head first...
Aight  so what is the best 1st rattler? Honestly i recomend pygmy rattlesnakes. Again its a beautiful rattler that tends to not be verry agressive, they have a small venom yeild, an come in a variety of colors an even pattern. If i rember correctly much like with the copperhead there has not been a recorded death by pygmy rattler in the last 100 years someone can correct me if i am wrong - their venom is alil more serious then a copperheads though an is fairly toxic but its generaly not considered fatal to a healthy adult  an again the same risks always apply.

Is there such thing as a "beginner" hot??

No - there are no hots with training wheels

For you hot keepers out there, where did you start?? Everyones gotta start somewhere!!

I was lucky enough to have a dad who grew up quite literly off the land, he taught me from aprtey young age how to identify venomous an non venomous snakes na always made sure i was able to check them out sdafely of course. When I was 10 I wa soutside playing an felt soemthing brush my hand, when I looked I saw a small blue phase pygmy rattler, it was apparently chasing alocust that had just flew off least thats my guess, anyway i cought the lil rattler an kept it for about a week before releasing it. After that it was an off an on subject what i could catch an maintain outside on my own without anyones knowledge of course haha my dad woulda wooped my butt raw lol. I made sure to learn everything I could about our natives here, as the years passed I helped  rehab varrious animals an did alotta volenteer work anywhere i could. So I have managed to get a decent amount of exprence under my belt. 16 years later I am keeping them full time again in my home after a years break a few years ago  when I had to move ^^. thats prety much the short prety version ;).

IF you are intrested in hots always try an find a mentor. things woulda been alot eaiser for me if i woulda had one ^^ glad now of course i have my friend chuck hurd around if i have any questions or need help :D when it comes to hots you can never have to many friends an contacts you never know what can happen, cuz trust me, with hots IF it can happen, IT WILL!


Offline john.w.lawson

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Re: Another Controversial Question
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2009, 08:37:04 PM »
As someone who has been bitten a few times, I would recommend the common sidewinder (not to be mistaken with the Mojave Sidewinder). Just your common garden variety Arizona sidewinder. You can always go with rear-fanged or fix-fanged snakes, but they are usually elipids (neurotoxin) where as your vipers are usually (but not always) hemotoxin. Coppers are a great snake, but can be very wiley to hook and to move around. Really, there are no good beginner snakes. There are only good beginners. I started off catching copperheads and then later I got into more exotic snakes ie Puffs, Black-and-white Spitter, and a good number of different species of Rattlers. Something that may or may not matter would be whether they are wild caught or captive born? So, really, your question just leads to more questions.
Yea, I know..I'm prettier then your girl friend..Not now,I have a headache.

Offline illbeyoursoldier

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Re: Another Controversial Question
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2009, 10:06:44 AM »
Celeste, I was looking forward to your response. And it was a good one!! I even thought wording the post originally to be like, ""Hey Celeste, so what do you think..." LoL, but I figured I'd open it up to anyone. :) Thanks for the input from both of you! I love the look of Sidewinders.

I mean, the only think I can think of for a beginner is GLOVES! GLOVES! GLOVES! But I don't keep hots, so my advice isn' the advice I'd take. I've handled them and had experience... Haha, but they're like other people's children, I get to play with them and then give them back when I'm done, LoL.
Anyone else??
Cheers!
- Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(& Frank M. Wood)

"Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood." -Marie Curie

Offline john.w.lawson

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Re: Another Controversial Question
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2009, 11:12:45 AM »
LBR are you talking about this kinda hognose?


Yea, I know..I'm prettier then your girl friend..Not now,I have a headache.

Offline LadyBloodRose

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Re: Another Controversial Question
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2009, 11:13:26 AM »
One thing though that is most important.
KNOW YOUR STATE and COUNTY Laws reguarding the keeping of Venomous species ;).


Glad you enjoyed the post hun.

Many people do like the look of a certain species an in teh end the goal should be to keep the species that you are most intrested in, but to many jump head long in ontop of that species rather then taking their time an working their way up to it an getting exprence.

Many tell you, just as I will that its best to work with a non venomous species that is verry fast, agressive, an that is not generlay easy to work with (hooking etc.) Idealy you want a species that is close to teh same body type as the hot you wish to work with.

An example would be if you would like to keep Cottonmouth, then keep a few species of Water snake, like the banded watersnake they tend to have anice thick body, an a foul temper.
A great snake to get used to working copperheads, an other slender vipers is a Black Racer - yes they tame down quickly, but they are still verry fast an will let you know when they are displeased.

Using a verry agressive non venomous snake also helps you in reading a snakes body language, helps you learn how to tell when a strike is comming, an sharpens your relfexes alil.

Something I tell everyone is this that wants to keep ahot.

Get yourself the most agressive non venomous snake you can, an keep it for a year. In that years time BE HONEST keep some stcky notes at the cage. Every time you get bitten, write 30,000$ DEAD an the date on a sticky note an stick it on the cage.  Each time you are bitten your year starts over at that date.  like for instance  you starte dkeeping a racer on July 1st 2008 an on January 3rd 2009 you get bitten, no longer do you have those months to count toward your goal but instead you start all over again from jan 3rd untill you can keep  for a year from that date without being bitten. Once you have managed to keep for a years time without being bitten then you can start considering moving into the hot hobby an testing the water with one of the more less deadly species.



You mentioned gloves, well  so lets talk clothing for working hots ;).

lets talk about footware. Don't be an idiot like me an  do things barefoot (BAD celeste! Do as I say not as I do yall! lol)  I get overheated easily lol so I tend to work barefoot this can be disasterous though. But When I do stop cutting corners, an wear shoes I wear boots. Boots are your best bet in the event that your snake deides it does not wish to coperate with you an hits the floor. Theit not 100% garenteed (less you wear snake proof) but  alot times  the thick material of agood pare of boots can mean the diffrence between an envenomation an well not being envenomated.

we all like to wear shorts but   thei rnot the best thing when working ahot snake. Idealy you wanna be wearing jeans, but if your new an your  alil on the precuationary sid eyou cna get apair of the  snake proof waders an slip them on over your  pants ;) or shorts if your feelin lazy ;).

when it comes to long sleeves or short sleeves, eh all depends on what your working. but  a short aint realy goan provide you much protection froms oemthingw ith decent sized fangs.  The same goes for the gloves. Now i'm not talkin about run of the mill work gloves but rather the gloves made for handeling reptiles. for handeling a rear fanged snake gloves, an a long sleeve shirt may help ya out. But even Al Cortz (ViperKeeper on youtube) has said he has seen some species bite threw them. So their not a sure thing.

No mater what precautions you take though, I would never say anything is 100% garenteed. A false sence of security is a bad thing an thats what tends to get alota keepers nailed.


Offline LadyBloodRose

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Re: Another Controversial Question
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2009, 11:16:11 AM »
LBR are you talking about this kinda hognose?





there are 8 types of hog nose  there is the Hog nose snake, which you have pictured there which is a rear fanged species 9yes i know western an eastern BUT i am saying 1 becayse its what in the us etc.)

an then there is the Hog nosed Pitviper which is found rom mexico an southward down toward south america an i belive even in the caribean




Offline LadyBloodRose

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Re: Another Controversial Question
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2009, 11:25:48 AM »
Anyway  there are  8 varrious species of hog nose snake.

i'll go ahead an name them off here

we in the us have the Eastern an Western HogNose

then there is the following:

Dunn's hognosed pitviper
Colima hognosed pitviper
Lansberg's hognosed pitviper
Rainforest hognosed pitviper
Slender hognosed pitviper
arran hognosed pitviper
Yucatán hognosed pitviper

 I think thats all of them ^^


Offline eunectes904

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Re: Another Controversial Question
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2009, 11:02:25 AM »
I agree with Celeste's response.  It's well thought out.  Mentoring is really the best way to go in my opinion. Some Zoos have programs for students and herpetologists looking for experience.   People (or most people i should say) know what they are getting into, proper protocol in case of an emergency, and of course handling, feeding, and husbandry techniques that are safe for both the species and the owner. Joe, i'm looking forward to your post on here as well, you've been keeping hot snakes for a long time, and we always like hearing your thoughts. I have my first "hot" and He's kinda somewhere in the "warm" side of the subject. LOL. 

Offline Geegmasta

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Re: Another Controversial Question
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2009, 10:09:25 PM »
Boy oh boy a beginner's HOT hmmm??  What a question.  I will go ahead and agree with Celeste...there is NO beginner hot, all are dangerous.  Just because copperhead fatalities have only been 2 (reported) in recent times...doesn't mean you won't be the next one.

I'd say though a good start is finding a good mentor with experience.  This may not be convenient but they can teach you hands-on how to handle these animals.  I started off with Timber/western/eastern Rattlers when I was 16.  Under supervision from the owner. 

I'd say the best beginning snake would be any viper or pitviper. They tend to be more...relaxed?  I use the term loosely.  But compare a rattler to a cobra and it's a big difference, behavior and physiology.  I think the last snakes any beginner should be trying are anything in Elapidae.  They move quick and are a lot harder to read and also seem to be much more aggressive. 
I don't plan on keeping any elapids...I love vipers...mainly rattlesnakes...they are fantastic.  That's my 2 cents
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